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  • Eurosavers- Best Bargain Basement sires in Ireland

    With so many stallions in Ireland, I thought it would be easy to compile a list of five or six of the best value sires in Ireland standing for less than €7000. I was wrong and I’m not sure why. Maybe it is just my methodology that is suspect, as I define bargain basement sires as those standing for a published fee of less than €7000. I would imagine that with the right mare and cash in my hand I would gain access to a great many sires with a published fee much greater than 7k.

    Maybe Irish breeders are more commercially astute than some of their European counterparts and there is very little discrepancy between price and value, with studs correctly pricing their stallions. Coolmore in particular are expert at stallion pricing and while you could argue that some of their stallions are slightly over-priced it is very hard to think of one that is underpriced. The best I could manage is as follows:

    Proven Stallions under €7000

    None, nada,nil, zip,zilch. I went through the full list of stallions in Ireland standing in Ireland and could not honestly recommend one of those stallions as being a proven and reliable source of quality offspring. If I’m missing one, please let me know.

    Promising Start- 1. Redback at €6500 Tally-Ho stud

    Redback was a decent racehorse winning the Solario Stakes at 2 and the Greenham at 3. He also finished 3rd to Rock of Gibraltar and Hawk Wing in a very good 2000 Guineas. He went to stud without great expectations. His own sire Mark of Esteem was seemingly in decline at the time but Sir Percy has since restored some credibility to his record. His dam Patsy Western is by Precocious, by Mummys Pet and would be associated with cheap speed. . His results to date are very promising. His first crop included Gilded who won a Queen Mary, backed up by Sonny Red who won a listed race. His second crop is headed by Redolent who has won at listed level and looks up to Group level. Redbacks pedigree has only one cross of Northern Dancer in the fourth generation so he should have no problem crossing with mares with Northern Dancer close-up. However Interestingly all 3 of his best runners are out of mares from other sire lines with Gilded being out of an Aragorn mare, Sonny Red being out of a Petong mare, and Redolent out of a Highest Honour mare. Whether this is a reflection of the opportunities afforded to him or evidence of bias is too early to say. We can however categorise Redback as a useful sire of tough, speedy types and he is capable of upgrading his mare. His results should also improve as he benefits from the better mares sent after his very promising first season. At €6500 he represents good value. Incidentally Tally-Ho stud obviously don’t believe in the internet as a means of promoting their stallions as their website http://www.tallyhostud.net/ is an embarrassment and badly needs an upgrade. (Note since this article was written tally-ho stud have notified me of their bright new shiny website at www.tallyhostud.com )

    Promising Start 2:- er, nobody else springs to mind.

    I was going to write about Modigliani who sired group winner Magritte and sales race winner Sudden Impact in his first crop but Greentree Stud have pushed his price up to €7500 which takes him out of the bargain basement and to be honest might be too much too soon.

    Unproven but might prove cheap.

    Trying to pick winners from amongst the ranks of new stallions is a foolish activity but it won’t stop me trying…. If I had to spend my own money on nominations to some unproven stallions in Ireland I would choose the following; Alamshar at €5000 and Indian Haven at €6000 both at the Irish National Stud.

    Maybe this is a sign that the Irish National Stud is taking seriously its obligations to small Irish breeders. Alamshar and Indian Haven are both Irish classic winners and both seem competitively priced. I fondly remember watching Alamshar win his maiden at Listowel and he is certainly the best flat horse to ever win there. He followed up by winning the Beresford. At three he finished third in the Derby but subsequent event showed he was the best horse in the field. He became the only horse to ever beat Dalakhani when out-battling him in the Irish Derby. He followed up by routing the field in the King George where his Derby conqueror Kris Kin was over five lengths in arrears. His career fizzled out when he was unplaced in both the Irish and Newmarket Champion Stakes. However he had proved himself to be an outstanding middle distance horse. At the end of his career the Aga Khan accepted an offer from Japan and it was surprising that he found his way back to these shores before his Japanese offspring had a chance to fully prove themselves. His fee is probably a reflection of the fact that he is by far the best offspring from his sire Key of Luck. As is typcial with Aga Khan families you don’t have to go far to find some class and his granddam is Aliysa who won the Oaks only to be controversially disqualified later for drug infringements, a disqualification that prompted the Aga Khan to withdraw all his horses from Britain.  Aliysa was already the dam of Desert Story who earned a berth at stud with wins in the Horris Hill at two and the Craven at three. His stud career in these parts never really got off the ground and he is now exiled to Alamshars former home of Japan. It might not be what everyone looks for in a stallions pedigree but given his race record he is certainly not overpriced.

    Indian Haven is the Irish National Studs hope to continue the successes they enjoyed with his sire Indian Ridge and his grandsire Ahonoora. Indian Ridge has yet to sire a stallion son as good as himself despite some promise from Compton Place and Namid. However Indian Haven seems to have a better chance than most. He was at as best in the Spring of his three year old season when he won the Free Handicap, got crucified in the Newmarket Guineas and then won well in the Irish Guineas. His form then tapered off and a decision to keep him in training at four failed to add to his record. His dam Madame Dubois won the Park Hill Stakes and she is also dam of Count Dubois (by Zafonic) who is doing well at stud in South Africa.  His first two year olds have now hit the track and at the moment he has one winner from 7 runners. However although this is hardly an exciting start it wouldn’t be a surprise if his progeny took after his example and improved markedly between two and three. At €6000 it might be worth taking a chance that he could be the one to continue the Ahonoora success story at the Irish National Stud.

    2 responses to “Eurosavers- Best Bargain Basement sires in Ireland”

    1. davenycity Avatar

      great blog thank you

    2. Paul Avatar
      Paul

      Great blog, any chance you could do an update on stallions for this year please as I’m starting out trying to breed horse and all information like the above is really helpful, I have a mare by ela mana mou

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  • Bargain Basement British Sires- Best of the Rest

    There is a difference between price and worth. Bargains can be found by recognising that difference. Browsing through a list of stallions in Britain at fees of under £5000  there were a few surprising names. Some of these are older stallions who have fallen out of fashion, some are stallions facing into difficult second, or third seasons and others just seem cheap to me. In no particular order my selections as the best value bargain basement sires are as follows:

    1. Proven Sire standing in the UK= Generous at £4500.

    Ok his sales figures are terrible and he is being marketed as a dual purpose sire. However he is a very good sire of racehorses and that should count for something. He is the sire of 37 stakes winners from 599 foals of racing age which is a very respectable 6%.  He started his career with huge expectations and a fee to match. When early results were solid rather than spectacular, it was impossible to resist a big money offer from Japan where his sire Caerleon was very popular. On his return to these isles he was being marketed as a dual purpose sire and covering very moderate mares. He still managed to sire a classic winner in Mystic Lips (2007 German Oaks) from one of the mares covered since his return.  He is also achieving success as a broodmare sire and Tartan Trader came within a length of giving him a Derby success as a broodmare sire to go with the Guineas victory of his brother Golan.  To these can be added Tungsten Strike and High Accolade who are also out Generous mares. 

    2. Promising UK based sire= Lucky Story at £4000

    It’s very early days for Lucky Story but he has made a bright start. He has sired Art Connoisseur who is unbeaten in two runs and will be well fancied in whatever engagement he takes up at Royal Ascot. He has also sired Caranbola who is a winner and was second in a Listed race. That isn’t a lot to go on but its a better start than anyone would have predicted. Lucky Story is a son of Kris S out of a Miswaki mare and is a full brother to the St James Palace winner Dr Fong (who stands for £9000). Although he never won a group 1, Lucky Story was the equal of his brother and he won two Group 2 races at two in the Vintage Stakes at Goodwood and the Champagne Stakes at Doncaster. At three he put up a fine performance in the QEII at Ascot running Ratki to half a length with Refuse To Bend, Soviet Song and Antonius Pius in his wake.  With a pedigree free of Northern Dancer and two promising performers in his first crop he offers value to British breeders.

    3. Unknown but seems cheap- Zafeen at £3000
    Zafeen won the Mill Reef Stakes at 2 and was second in the Prix Morny. At three he was runner up to Refuse to Bend in the 2000 Guineas and won the St James Palace.  He was rated the champion European three year old miler. He is a son of supersonic Zafonic, who to date has not left a major sire son (although Count Dubois is doing well in South Africa and Ifraaj has just started his career). His dam Shy Lady was by Kaldoun and was a 6 furlong listed race winner in Germany from the family of Diffident.  Northern Dancer is buried far back in his pedigree at 4sx6d so there should be no problem breeding  to stallions from his line. Zafeen looks good, he was a top class racehorse at two and three, his pedigree is respectable and he looks very reasonably priced to me.

     

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  • Hernando-time for another look

    It was a big weekend for Hernando. Firstly he sired Last Look who powered home in the Oaks at 33-1 and 24 hours later Casual Conquest ran a fine race to finish third in the Derby.  It enhances his status as a reliable source of quality staminain a pedigree. He has now sired 2 French Derby winners(when it was a 12 furlong derby) in Sulamani and Holding Court and he has sired an Epsom derby 3rd (Casual Conquest) and 4th (Mr Combustible).  Since the death of Caerleon, and Royal Acadamy’s return to the States, he is now one of the very few credible representatives of the Nijinksy line still standing in Europe (the others are Lomitas and potentially Hernando’s son Sulamani).

    The aforementioned Sulamani can take most of the credit for the upsurge in Hernando’s fortunes. He won 6 Group ones over 3 seasons including 4 in 2003.  His successes led to larger books in 2003 and 2004 and Last Look and Casual Conquest are among the outcomes. No doubt next year will see an increase in quality and quantity for Hernando and I wouldnt be surprised if in 2013 I am again writing about what was to many a surprising upsurge in his fortunes. He is in danger of becoming a yo-yo sire whose success comes in 5 year cycles.  He was reduced to crops in the 40’s of mostly owners breeders. The commercial breeders have never warmed to Hernando, mostly because of the stamina ‘issue’ but perhaps partly because of the reputation that Lanwades home of Hernando are less willing to make a deal than the likes of Coolmore and Darley. Alas the commercial breeders failed to realise that Hernando is and was the real deal and at 10k was amongst the best value stallions in Britain. His stats back this up and from 532 foals of racing age he has had 247 winners (47%) and 32 stakes winners (6%).

    Last Look the dam of Look Here was unraced but is by Rainbow Quest who was already the broodmare sire of 2 Derby Winners in North Light and Kris Kin.  On pedigree and in hindsight her chance at Epsom was obvious. Those looking for quality in the family will find it under the third dam Dance Quest who is the dam of Pursuit of Love (by another Blushing Groom horse in Groom Dancer. Pursuit of Love finished 3rd in a Guineas and 2nd in a July Cup and had a reasonable stud career until his recent death.

    Ralph Beckett has said that he might avoid the Irish Oaks to give Look Here more time to recover from her exertions as she is not a robust filly who needs time between her races. The obvious next target then becomes the St Leger. Her pedigree gives plenty of comfort on that score. Hernando’s was never tried over further than 12 furlongs but his sire Niniski won 2 St Legers (an Irish and French) and Nijinsky as the last triple crown winner, won the Doncaster original. For good measure Look Here’s third dam, Dance Quest is by Green Dancer another son of Nijinsky.  Roll on Doncaster… 

    LOOK HERE (GB) 2005 f b

    Hernando
    (FR) 1990
    Niniski
    (USA) 1976
    Nijinsky
    (CAN) 1967
    Northern
    Dancer (CAN) 1961
    Flaming
    Page (USA) 1959
    Virginia
    Hills (USA) 1971
    Tom
    Rolfe (USA) 1962
    Ridin’
    Easy (USA) 1967
    Whakilyric
    (USA) 1984
    Miswaki
    (USA) 1978
    Mr
    Prospector (USA) 1970
    Hopespringseternal
    (USA) 1971
    Lyrism
    (USA) 1979
    Lyphard
    (USA) 1969
    Pass
    A Glance (USA) 1971
    Last
    Look (GB) 1995
    Rainbow
    Quest (USA) 1981
    Blushing
    Groom (FR) 1974
    Red
    God (USA) 1954
    Runaway
    Bride (GB) 1962
    I
    Will Follow (USA) 1975
    Herbager
    (FR) 1956
    Where
    You Lead (USA) 1970
    Derniere
    Danse (GB) 1987
    Gay
    Mecene (USA) 1975
    Vaguely
    Noble (GB) 1965
    Gay
    Missile (USA) 1967
    Dance
    Quest (FR) 1981
    Green
    Dancer (USA) 1972
    Polyponder
    (USA) 1974

     

     

    2 responses to “Hernando-time for another look”

    1. balls of steel Avatar
      balls of steel

      Hernando has also sired some very high class NH horses – No Refuge, Sacundai, State of Play, Top Strategy, One Gulp to name but a few. Perhaps this hasnt helped his image amongst flat breeders.

      p.s. is it possible to start a discussion forum on this site

    2. Ed Avatar
      Ed

      True but Sadler’s Wells could claim lots of top hurdlers and it never harmed him :)I remember reading a comment on the betfair forum that the best you could hope for with a Hernando was to win a race with Mark Prescott and sell it to Graham Wylie for a fortune…

      I’m looking into a forum and will add it if it is not too technically difficult

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  • Vision D’Etat- Distinctively French

    Vision D’Etat kept his unbeaten record when just holding off Famous Name and 18 others at Chantilly. His pedigree is intriguing and a refreshing change from the norm. In these days of globalisation it is a pedigree with a very regional feel and includes lots of relatively unfamiliar names that trace back to Grey Sovereign via Caro. His sire Chichicastenango (the name of a town in Guatemala) stands at Haras de Victot in Calvados for €3500, a fee that clearly indicates he is not ‘a la mode’. As a two year old Chichicastenango made his debut in May but took 5 runs before opening his account. However he improved markedly in his final two runs of that campaign and signed off with a win in the group 3 Prix Thomas Byron over a mile on heavy ground. Behind him that day were two subsequent Group 1 winners in Denon and Domedriver. As a three year old it again took him a few runs to find his form but on his third run he landed the Group 1 Prix Lupin denying subsequent classic winners Anabaa Blue and Milan in a close finish. The next logical step was the Prix de Jockey Club back when it was still over 12 furlongs. He ran a fine race to beat all bar Anabaa Blue. He was obviously a tough horse as he ran again three weeks later in the Grand Prix de Paris (back when that race was over 10 furlongs) and he landed his second group one in defeating Mizzen Mast and three others in a weak field for a Group 1. He was dropped back to a mile when tried in the Jacques le Marois and ran respectably only beaten about 2 lengths behind the subsequently disqualified Proudwings. His career ended in the Prix Niel when he finished third behind Golan and Anabaa Blue. His career stats ended as 14 runs , 4 wins (a maiden,2 Group 1’s and a Group 3 as a two year old). He was competitive in Group 1 company from a mile to 12 furlongs and had in a sense written his own pedigree and truly earned his place at stud. To date he has sired 3 black type winners from only 95 foals. It will be interesting to see how the success of Vision D’Etat impacts upon his fee and upon the level of support that he receives. He is clearly capable of upgrading his mares and aside from Chichicastenango he has had group 3 winner in Chinandega and Chichi Creasy.

    His grandsire Smadoun had also run 14 times but in his case it yielded a solitary listed win in Toulouse. It would be difficult to envisage him finding a berth at stud in Ireland or the UK. He currently stands for €2000 and is producing dual purpose types but still manages to find the occasional stakes performer. Smadoun is by Kaldoun who has sired some top class performers such as Occupandiste (winner of Prix Maurice de Gheest and Prix de La Foret) ,Spadoun who was a group 1 winning two year old and Kaldounevees. Smala the dam of Chichicastenango is by Antheus (by Northern Dancer) who is described as a champion older horse in Italy after winning a Gran Premio del Jockey club. To the best of my knowledge he never achieved anything of note as a sire. Chichicastenango also has another cross of Northern Dancer through Fabulous Dancer but being in the fourth and fifth generations for Vision D’Etat they are hardly significant.

    The source of Vision D’Etat’s class is not easily found. His dam Uberaba is by the Mill Reef horse Garde Royale who sired Carling, winner of Prix de Diane and Prix Vermeille. Uberaba has to date had 9 foals with 3 winners. None have shown anything remotely like classic form and most ended up running over jumps including Milan de Mille who eventually finished a remote 15th in this years Grand National.  His granddam Ile D’amour was unraced and managed only 2 minor winners from 11 foals. Given his modest pedigree he must have been a good looking colt to fetch nearly €39000 when Eric Libaud purchased him at the December 2006 Arqana sale. No doubt it also crossed his mind that the horse would have residual value as a jumps horse if he failed to make the grade on the flat. We can now safely rule out the possibility of gelding him and selling him to a jumps trainer:) The French revolutionaries took a dim view of royalty and instead sought to promote egalité. In equine terms Vision D’Etat comes from a plebian background but he doesn’t know that. Many of the sires in his background would not have been afforded a place at stud in Britain or Ireland where there is now a distinct lack of variety in sire lines.  Maybe it’s time for another revolution…….

    VISION D’ETAT (FR) 2005 c b

    Chichicastenango (FR) 1998 Smadoun(FR) 1990 Kaldoun(FR) 1975 Caro(IRE) 1967
    Katana(FR) 1970
    Mossma(FR) 1982 TipMoss (FR) 1972
    Ticma(IRE) 1968
    Smala(FR) 1993 Antheus(USA) 1982 NorthernDancer (CAN) 1961
    Apachee(FR) 1975
    SmallPartie (FR) 1988 FabulousDancer (USA) 1976
    SummerParties (USA) 1982
    Uberaba(FR) 1986 GardeRoyale (IRE) 1980 MillReef (USA) 1968 NeverBend (USA) 1960
    MilanMill (USA) 1962
    RoyalWay (FR) 1969 Sicambre(FR) 1948
    RightAway (FR) 1963
    IleD’amour (FR) 1974 Montevideo2nd (GB) 1963 Honeyway(GB) 1941
    FairNicolle (GB) 1957
    OldEngland (FR) 1958 WildRisk (FR) 1940
    FolieDouce (USA) 1949

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